I think the issue is certainly one of definitions. As a philosophy student I thought about this specific issue quite a lot, and got to a stage where I think I have the answer. The definition of 'genuine' nothing is really just that - absolute nothing. It does not contain the possibility of 'something'. If it did, it would not strictly speaking be 'nothing'.
Point one. Point two then acknowledges that there is clearly something (it doesn't matter what the something is, but there is something) - even if it's only me, that's still something. The fact that I am typing this is 'something'. That's self-evident.
Point three is acknowledging that 'something' cannot come from 'nothing' (which is the definition issue).
Point four then suggests that, therefore 'there must always have been something' - from a certain point of view the default state should be nothing, but it isn't. Logically, then, there can't possibly be a 'beginning' - because there can't one moment be 'nothing' and then the next moment 'something' - 'something' must have always existed. Thus, whatever it is that the something originated from is not nothing, but is itself something, with the power of creation - so the something is self-generative.
My final point five was a bit weird, and I suggested that the only thing 'relative to the nothing' which can exist is 'possibility' - meaning all of this 'something' is actually not a 'real thing' itself, but a 'possibility'. Meaning possibility is the only thing that can exist.
Nowadays I'm not too sure about point five. I think if something exists then everything exists, just not necessarily at the same time or in the same place, since that would create incompatibilities. To resolve that issue of infinity, the different possibilities for the arrangements/configurations of 'the something' must be separated - thus we get stuff like parallel worlds.
A deeper additional thought to all this is the action of 'time' on the something. I've come to think of time as the fundamental force - without some generative principle there wouldn't be any something. Time, then, is this generative principle - although it's probably not 'time' as most people understand it.
Anyway - there's my philosophical two pence there. This idea of nothing vs. something is one of my favourite philosophical questions - I'm glad I'm not the only one!
Both your own experience and the books description are so interesting! I’ve experienced two different states of the void, one during meditation which was peaceful and refreshing, the other in a similar fashion to yours being half awake, half asleep and that one was scary. I wonder if the difference is when half asleep we aren’t in control of the experience?
The Edgar Cayce readings suggested that we were all created to keep God company. God was lonely. I think I have assumed that the void was all light. I have thought that evil is the choice to stand in the darkness, a shadow, or to turn one's face away from the light. I know this veers off from your original point, but I just thought I'd put that out there.
Following up on Ms. Brunswick’s remarkably concise response…
Have you ever read Fritjof Capra’s The Tao of Physics? If not, I highly recommend it as reclaiming a “starting point” in your journey. It is a comprehensive (but not too long) understanding of where religion, spirituality, philosophy and science meet and explains much about Ms. Brunswick’s “Point Five” as well.
Of course there must always be “something” even as we are sensing the “nothing” around us. We are experiencing the limitations of our own consciousness at that point. The illusion of nothing. Precisely as, at this very moment, you are not aware of so very much that is present going on around you. Certain waves of sound and light, sub-atomic particles, cosmic rays, etc.
Even “death” is “something” and not “nothing.”
Return to the foundational concept laid 2500 years ago by Heraclitus, “All is in flux.” Everything. Constantly changing. But in what way? Einstein said matter becomes energy. BOOM! But what people do not consider (Einstein, of course, understood) is that energy must also, therefore, become matter again. Flux, back and forth.
But how? We know that nebulae create stars and this creation generates planets, etc, leading to life forms, and I’m not going to mansplain astrophysics in this space. But when the Universe dies, what happens?
And now we know. We think. The universal furnace. Black holes.
POINT FIVE: Nothing ever dies. All is in flux. Something is always there is some form, matter or energy. In this Universe or the next. Or the next. Or the next.
And you have always been here. OR there. In some form.
I think the issue is certainly one of definitions. As a philosophy student I thought about this specific issue quite a lot, and got to a stage where I think I have the answer. The definition of 'genuine' nothing is really just that - absolute nothing. It does not contain the possibility of 'something'. If it did, it would not strictly speaking be 'nothing'.
Point one. Point two then acknowledges that there is clearly something (it doesn't matter what the something is, but there is something) - even if it's only me, that's still something. The fact that I am typing this is 'something'. That's self-evident.
Point three is acknowledging that 'something' cannot come from 'nothing' (which is the definition issue).
Point four then suggests that, therefore 'there must always have been something' - from a certain point of view the default state should be nothing, but it isn't. Logically, then, there can't possibly be a 'beginning' - because there can't one moment be 'nothing' and then the next moment 'something' - 'something' must have always existed. Thus, whatever it is that the something originated from is not nothing, but is itself something, with the power of creation - so the something is self-generative.
My final point five was a bit weird, and I suggested that the only thing 'relative to the nothing' which can exist is 'possibility' - meaning all of this 'something' is actually not a 'real thing' itself, but a 'possibility'. Meaning possibility is the only thing that can exist.
Nowadays I'm not too sure about point five. I think if something exists then everything exists, just not necessarily at the same time or in the same place, since that would create incompatibilities. To resolve that issue of infinity, the different possibilities for the arrangements/configurations of 'the something' must be separated - thus we get stuff like parallel worlds.
A deeper additional thought to all this is the action of 'time' on the something. I've come to think of time as the fundamental force - without some generative principle there wouldn't be any something. Time, then, is this generative principle - although it's probably not 'time' as most people understand it.
Anyway - there's my philosophical two pence there. This idea of nothing vs. something is one of my favourite philosophical questions - I'm glad I'm not the only one!
Kicker ending! Love it.
Also, I’m now down a rabbit hole of Cannons books!
Both your own experience and the books description are so interesting! I’ve experienced two different states of the void, one during meditation which was peaceful and refreshing, the other in a similar fashion to yours being half awake, half asleep and that one was scary. I wonder if the difference is when half asleep we aren’t in control of the experience?
The Edgar Cayce readings suggested that we were all created to keep God company. God was lonely. I think I have assumed that the void was all light. I have thought that evil is the choice to stand in the darkness, a shadow, or to turn one's face away from the light. I know this veers off from your original point, but I just thought I'd put that out there.
Following up on Ms. Brunswick’s remarkably concise response…
Have you ever read Fritjof Capra’s The Tao of Physics? If not, I highly recommend it as reclaiming a “starting point” in your journey. It is a comprehensive (but not too long) understanding of where religion, spirituality, philosophy and science meet and explains much about Ms. Brunswick’s “Point Five” as well.
Of course there must always be “something” even as we are sensing the “nothing” around us. We are experiencing the limitations of our own consciousness at that point. The illusion of nothing. Precisely as, at this very moment, you are not aware of so very much that is present going on around you. Certain waves of sound and light, sub-atomic particles, cosmic rays, etc.
Even “death” is “something” and not “nothing.”
Return to the foundational concept laid 2500 years ago by Heraclitus, “All is in flux.” Everything. Constantly changing. But in what way? Einstein said matter becomes energy. BOOM! But what people do not consider (Einstein, of course, understood) is that energy must also, therefore, become matter again. Flux, back and forth.
But how? We know that nebulae create stars and this creation generates planets, etc, leading to life forms, and I’m not going to mansplain astrophysics in this space. But when the Universe dies, what happens?
And now we know. We think. The universal furnace. Black holes.
POINT FIVE: Nothing ever dies. All is in flux. Something is always there is some form, matter or energy. In this Universe or the next. Or the next. Or the next.
And you have always been here. OR there. In some form.
You know, i was afraid to tell you what i wanted to tell…
So i was going to just pass on, because we do not know what other… are… fundamentaly… it’s not so… really the case. Anyway.
I found your post on the way of quitting your page, the post about “fear is permision”
By total fortuity.
And so, i decided not to give you a little after reading, but the entirety of it.
For i have now learned a new and great thing :
Every people have saw, many many many many things,
And i am not alone, nor you are in reality…
Ahahahahhaha.
So i will begin here, even if i did not have the same experience as you nor the same life, i will not fear to tell you about mine too.
Or maybe just a little, no, even just that :
It is about thought. Though was always the answer.
Be it mind, be it monster, be it light, be it emotion, be it will, or anything else in the world,
All is thougt .
The sentence is :
It is the questioning about the absence of void, that created the illusion of all things.
-
Do you understand ?
Do you maybe know the sentence :
I think so i am” by Descart, the french philosopher.
He was utterly right.
It is though, hermes, the trismegist said in his law :
We are living in the mind of god.
The nothingness, how to explain.
The reason why, is adventure of life.
Because loniless and nothingness.
So if you were, all alone and afraid, what would you do ?
You would think : and what if .
It is life.
That just there, is creation.
This is why, when you think about something, it’s get more potent,
It is why though are so important.
The muslime said in the coran :
And god give him(Adam) from his spirit.
To say, he gave him part of his spirit.
The wanabago in north america said :
That god created the world by his though.
And that we live in the mind of the (great spirit)
Or again, Lao Tseu, that have written the first texte of the Taoisme said :
I do not know who created the way, he is more ancient than god .
It is to say for me, The creator is you, it is me, him. Everything is the thought of god.
Nothing have ever changed, the truth was always everywhere, and what i am saying,
Every people before me already said it.
Alan watt, i hope i prononced it great said :
Someone who think all the time, have nothing to think about, expect though.
I think the more i say, the more complicated it gets.
So for you to understand, i will just leave you the first message i wanted to give you but i had retracted,
I do not know what you wil get but, i know now, like me, you are strong enough, i believe in you.
Truly, you gave me strength without knowing, i will give you the world that i know,
Even if maybe you already know it, and i am the ignorant.
I have written so much, ah….
Ahaha you are god, thinking of himself doing what you do, in the world where you are.
For the sole purpose of: and what if, i was not alone ? And what if ? And what if, life ?
That is creation…
———
I know that…. So no need to say a thing.
Just listen if you have ears, and read if you have eyes.
I don’t need reply…
The sentence is :
It is the questioning about the absence of void, that created the illusion of all things.
C’est le questionnement de l’absence du vide,
Qui crea l’ilusion de toute chose.
This, is merely though,
Writing… loneliness…. Indescribable void.
I can ask myself now.
Is there someone in the world.
Currently….
I love you for reading me.
Can i ask you something,
I don’t need reply.
Do you hear it ?
I mean… i know the answer…
How pathetic…
A crazy old man… to young maybe…
I always write that sort of thing, and it never lead me that far.
072704321703
But i don’t need to go anywhere, i am always here. It never changed, since the oldest beginning of time.
It is just a thought.
A thought… i mean….
It’s about thinking…
Though is the key.
Have you already heard the sentence about:
I think so i am”
When there is void, and nothingness,
There is only one thing left, to consciousness.
It is. Thinking.
I am sorry to tell you that, i will stop…
Knowing is maybe too sad sometime…
Someone who think all the time, have nothing to think about, except though”
Whatever the world, the truth lies always in thinking.
I know i said i will stop, but. No i don’t want to curse you…
Like Zeleph did.
He cried, Zeleph…
He cried so much…. So much….
He said… it’s merely a nightmare, that shall never end…
Then he smiled thinking “ what a beautiful world.”
And he said… “how unfortunate…”
“Why” did she said…
He replied : “the magic of all thing”
le concluant de zeleph.
ahahahhahahahahha.
I remember my favorite friend when he said :
I don’t know who created the great Dao.
But he is most ancien than God.
Ahahahahahahahhahahaha !
Ah…. Than i should say !
“I don’t know too.” Ahahahahahha.
For knowing is a sin.
When a child’s dream….
Is sweatier than the void of all thing.
Please if you read, don’t be cursed by this knowledge, please, do not fall…
Please, i do not want to feel any more pain
—————
Ah… i know that you, are strong enough.
And i was just a child afraid just now.
Yes, the world is an illusion of truth,
A dream about somethingness,
In a great couscioness of nothingness.
It is about a child, that we named god,
Afraid to be alone, and that was so lonely and so sad and so… desesperetely in need for adventure…
He, i… evereything… just… I just wanted not to be alone.
And knowing that chassing after adventure would just make me more lonely, i decided to chase forever,
In every dimension, in infinite absoluty, for absolute eternity and beyond space and time.
Without begining, without end.
I am but a though, i am but thinking.
That is….
We all had our nightmare, and our sweetdream…
The little girl made me cry…
Ah… i always was a kind heart…
I will even give you more than this !
If you go on “reddit” and you type on the reseache “Zephelein” you will find something.
It is for you, you can read it allllll…
Maybe one life would not be enough, sorry for the orthographic fault ahahahahahahah