What is magic but the unseen, the not yet known, like the colors on the spectrum that the human eyes can not yet perceive, limited by their biology. Is perception warped by what we don't understand? How does our perception of an object cause it to change, simply by viewing it? Perhaps the object was already changing, or not. I wonder, how could anything not change? So many mysteries.🤍🪽
You've just given me a timely reminder about the Tao of Physics, which someone else mentioned/reminded me about just a few weeks ago. Coincidences, eh.
This also reminds me of an amusing incident, illustrating that unfortunately philosophers, in my experience, have become just as closed-minded as so-called scientists. When I was back in England (this was about 20 years ago) I attended a lecture about the existence (or otherwise) of the soul, and in the Q&A I put forward the possibility that what we call the soul is like some sub-atomic lifeform, composed in a sort of lattice of sub-atomic particles, held together by a sub-atomic force (or quantum entanglement, even) which attaches itself to a body (sort of like a parasite), then detaches when the body dies and finds another, etc. etc. (I actually formulated this idea better at the time, with a lot more jargon). The lecturer looked aghast at me for a moment then all he could think of saying was 'I think that's a bit below the belt, bringing quantum physics into it.'
Which drew quite a laugh from the audience. It was one of my high moments in my ultimately doomed philosophy career.
But I am definitely like you, in the sense that I have never seen a problem or conflict in embracing both spiritual/occult intuitions/beliefs, and scientific knowledge. I've always been able to make them complement each other. I would also say that perhaps this holistic approach is one of the reasons why Atlantis was a utopia.
I would also say the deliberate separation of the two has been a central feature of the 'war against the spirit' which has been used by evil people to control humanity (divide & conquer, in a way). It creates an emptiness and a learned helplessness which is then filled by authoritarianism.
If humanity can remember this, and embrace it, they may just survive. If not, they are doomed...
Kelly, thanks for the summary of Capra's book. I'll add it to my near-toppling stack. I find it amusing that one of the legends of time, space, and physics (Einstein) was a bit freaked out by quantum entanglement. The interesting part is that quantum entanglement has been proven over and over, and it didn't equate with Einstein's notion that nothing could "physically" travel faster than light. But, quantum entanglement broke that idea. So, a rational person would come to the conclusion that the quantum world somehow isn't bound by these physical limitations.
Also, this quote from the book...
“Deep ecology does not see the world as a collection of isolated objects, but rather a network of phenomena that are fundamentally interconnected and interdependent.”
...got me thinking about chaos theory (i.e. the butterfly effect). The world is a massively large and complex system. The world is emergent and science tends to separate and isolate everything as black and white. The reason some scientists are baffled by quantum gravity is also amusing to me. This "theory of everything" is a deadend. Maybe, just maybe, there is no simple way to align gravity with the quantum world? Perhaps we're not asking the right questions and using the wrong tools? It's like trying to measure the dimensions of your bedroom with a scale.
Thanks again.
P.S. I'm in Berkeley too. Maybe I'll see Capra at a cafe one day? 😀
This is great, I’ll definitely check this book out! I’d love to learn more about Eastern philosophy and religion and how it intersects with what we know about physics. This is the exact area I’m interested in (and writing about here) except with regard to Christianity.
Currently I’m reading a book called ‘Into the Unknown: The Quest to Understand the Mysteries of the Cosmos’ by Kelsey Johnson. She lays out the physics of all the big questions like alternate dimensions, the Big Bang, etc. In a fairly accessible manner. It’s not trying to weave in spiritual stuff, but it does honestly address the blindspots in science which some may not be willing to admit. It’s very intellectually honest about what we know, what we don’t know, and what we can’t know (but what we hope to) about our universe. Highly recommend!
Have you read The Dancing Wu-Li Masters by Gary Zukav (1979)? The first book I ever came across regarding the double-slit experiment and its possible spiritual implications. I'd be interested in your opinion of it. Especially whether or not the quantum physics of that experiment/experience can be extended into everyday life, or if it is restricted to sub-atomic particles/waves in a laboratory. There was a (poorly made) documentary made about this in the early 2000s that didn't answer the question it set up.
I have not, but I’ve added it to my cart! Mind you, there are 6 books ahead of it in my TBR pile 😬😅.
Thank you for the recommendation and I look forward to checking it out.
That’s an interesting point, and right off the bat I’m not sure what to say about it except that it seems everything behaves differently when we’re observing it which complicates things. I’d think that the lab can give us a lot of interesting insights but perhaps not everything with our limited instruments and knowledge. I don’t see why it can’t be extended into every day life, unless you’re thinking of something specific that I don’t know of.
You're welcome! Hope it's as an enjoyable read for you as it was for me. If I remember right, Zukav did not have any background as a quantum physicist when he wrote the book. I think I heard an interview of him saying that a lot of the inspiration and direction that the book should take just came to him - not all at once - and not exactly channeled, but something close to it.
Which makes for another interesting aspect of the book as it's about the influence of subtle energies and the possibility that they may be conscious in ways we don't know about. Did happy little quantum particles get together and inspire Zukav to write the book? I'm smiling as I write this because although that may sound far fetched and a little bit too fun for science (and I don't think Zukav ever entertains the idea the way I just did), the idea that an observer could influence sub-atomic particles also probably sounded far-fetched at the time the experiment/experience was first explored. How do we know that the natural world down to the smallest level isn't also observing us humans in some way? There are many ancient mystical/spiritual traditions from many different cultures that speak to the idea that everything, including supposedly inanimate objects like rocks are in fact conscious in a way that modern science up until now has not been prepared or willing to admit.
As far as changing things by observing them, my hesitation or question about this being extended into everyday life has to do with the fact that objects in a quantum particle experiment are 1) in a closed, controlled environment, but in everyday life there are countless, um, inputs and a myriad of variables exist. 2) A quantum entity whether behaving as a particle or wave is vastly different than an larger more complex inanimate or animate entity such as a flower, bird, or cloud....not to mention something as complicated or weird as a human being. Sometimes I feel like the New Age movement took ideas like Zukav's and ran with it a little too far, which is why there are more charlatans in the movement who may not even know that they are charlatans, because they haven't carefully examined or questioned the basis for their modalities. (I'm saying this as someone who has experienced a wide variety of healing modalities and other subtle energy practices, and I'm still not sure where I land on the value or authenticity of those experiences.)
3) I could be entirely wrong about 1) and 2), at which point I just go back to my life and say that I see what I see and know what I know (which isn't very much, but all I have).
Cheers, and thanks for your article prompting me to explore all of this again!
What is magic but the unseen, the not yet known, like the colors on the spectrum that the human eyes can not yet perceive, limited by their biology. Is perception warped by what we don't understand? How does our perception of an object cause it to change, simply by viewing it? Perhaps the object was already changing, or not. I wonder, how could anything not change? So many mysteries.🤍🪽
I read Capra in seminary and still have my copy on the shelf
Subscribed! Definitely need to check out that book.Stuff that does stuffy stuff, lol. Spooky action at a distance, right? [[|:-)
Thank you so much Chris and welcome to Metanoia! Yes. And as always, there are too many books, too many things to learn, and not enough time 🤔
You've just given me a timely reminder about the Tao of Physics, which someone else mentioned/reminded me about just a few weeks ago. Coincidences, eh.
This also reminds me of an amusing incident, illustrating that unfortunately philosophers, in my experience, have become just as closed-minded as so-called scientists. When I was back in England (this was about 20 years ago) I attended a lecture about the existence (or otherwise) of the soul, and in the Q&A I put forward the possibility that what we call the soul is like some sub-atomic lifeform, composed in a sort of lattice of sub-atomic particles, held together by a sub-atomic force (or quantum entanglement, even) which attaches itself to a body (sort of like a parasite), then detaches when the body dies and finds another, etc. etc. (I actually formulated this idea better at the time, with a lot more jargon). The lecturer looked aghast at me for a moment then all he could think of saying was 'I think that's a bit below the belt, bringing quantum physics into it.'
Which drew quite a laugh from the audience. It was one of my high moments in my ultimately doomed philosophy career.
But I am definitely like you, in the sense that I have never seen a problem or conflict in embracing both spiritual/occult intuitions/beliefs, and scientific knowledge. I've always been able to make them complement each other. I would also say that perhaps this holistic approach is one of the reasons why Atlantis was a utopia.
I would also say the deliberate separation of the two has been a central feature of the 'war against the spirit' which has been used by evil people to control humanity (divide & conquer, in a way). It creates an emptiness and a learned helplessness which is then filled by authoritarianism.
If humanity can remember this, and embrace it, they may just survive. If not, they are doomed...
Kelly, thanks for the summary of Capra's book. I'll add it to my near-toppling stack. I find it amusing that one of the legends of time, space, and physics (Einstein) was a bit freaked out by quantum entanglement. The interesting part is that quantum entanglement has been proven over and over, and it didn't equate with Einstein's notion that nothing could "physically" travel faster than light. But, quantum entanglement broke that idea. So, a rational person would come to the conclusion that the quantum world somehow isn't bound by these physical limitations.
Also, this quote from the book...
“Deep ecology does not see the world as a collection of isolated objects, but rather a network of phenomena that are fundamentally interconnected and interdependent.”
...got me thinking about chaos theory (i.e. the butterfly effect). The world is a massively large and complex system. The world is emergent and science tends to separate and isolate everything as black and white. The reason some scientists are baffled by quantum gravity is also amusing to me. This "theory of everything" is a deadend. Maybe, just maybe, there is no simple way to align gravity with the quantum world? Perhaps we're not asking the right questions and using the wrong tools? It's like trying to measure the dimensions of your bedroom with a scale.
Thanks again.
P.S. I'm in Berkeley too. Maybe I'll see Capra at a cafe one day? 😀
This is great, I’ll definitely check this book out! I’d love to learn more about Eastern philosophy and religion and how it intersects with what we know about physics. This is the exact area I’m interested in (and writing about here) except with regard to Christianity.
Currently I’m reading a book called ‘Into the Unknown: The Quest to Understand the Mysteries of the Cosmos’ by Kelsey Johnson. She lays out the physics of all the big questions like alternate dimensions, the Big Bang, etc. In a fairly accessible manner. It’s not trying to weave in spiritual stuff, but it does honestly address the blindspots in science which some may not be willing to admit. It’s very intellectually honest about what we know, what we don’t know, and what we can’t know (but what we hope to) about our universe. Highly recommend!
Have you read The Dancing Wu-Li Masters by Gary Zukav (1979)? The first book I ever came across regarding the double-slit experiment and its possible spiritual implications. I'd be interested in your opinion of it. Especially whether or not the quantum physics of that experiment/experience can be extended into everyday life, or if it is restricted to sub-atomic particles/waves in a laboratory. There was a (poorly made) documentary made about this in the early 2000s that didn't answer the question it set up.
I have not, but I’ve added it to my cart! Mind you, there are 6 books ahead of it in my TBR pile 😬😅.
Thank you for the recommendation and I look forward to checking it out.
That’s an interesting point, and right off the bat I’m not sure what to say about it except that it seems everything behaves differently when we’re observing it which complicates things. I’d think that the lab can give us a lot of interesting insights but perhaps not everything with our limited instruments and knowledge. I don’t see why it can’t be extended into every day life, unless you’re thinking of something specific that I don’t know of.
You're welcome! Hope it's as an enjoyable read for you as it was for me. If I remember right, Zukav did not have any background as a quantum physicist when he wrote the book. I think I heard an interview of him saying that a lot of the inspiration and direction that the book should take just came to him - not all at once - and not exactly channeled, but something close to it.
Which makes for another interesting aspect of the book as it's about the influence of subtle energies and the possibility that they may be conscious in ways we don't know about. Did happy little quantum particles get together and inspire Zukav to write the book? I'm smiling as I write this because although that may sound far fetched and a little bit too fun for science (and I don't think Zukav ever entertains the idea the way I just did), the idea that an observer could influence sub-atomic particles also probably sounded far-fetched at the time the experiment/experience was first explored. How do we know that the natural world down to the smallest level isn't also observing us humans in some way? There are many ancient mystical/spiritual traditions from many different cultures that speak to the idea that everything, including supposedly inanimate objects like rocks are in fact conscious in a way that modern science up until now has not been prepared or willing to admit.
As far as changing things by observing them, my hesitation or question about this being extended into everyday life has to do with the fact that objects in a quantum particle experiment are 1) in a closed, controlled environment, but in everyday life there are countless, um, inputs and a myriad of variables exist. 2) A quantum entity whether behaving as a particle or wave is vastly different than an larger more complex inanimate or animate entity such as a flower, bird, or cloud....not to mention something as complicated or weird as a human being. Sometimes I feel like the New Age movement took ideas like Zukav's and ran with it a little too far, which is why there are more charlatans in the movement who may not even know that they are charlatans, because they haven't carefully examined or questioned the basis for their modalities. (I'm saying this as someone who has experienced a wide variety of healing modalities and other subtle energy practices, and I'm still not sure where I land on the value or authenticity of those experiences.)
3) I could be entirely wrong about 1) and 2), at which point I just go back to my life and say that I see what I see and know what I know (which isn't very much, but all I have).
Cheers, and thanks for your article prompting me to explore all of this again!